I´ve a question - Guild Wars Forums

Brian Valentine · Feb 04, 2010, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Hi people

I´m newbie in this forum and newbie at the Guild wars too
I´ve a question: "how to make good builds?"

*Darcy* · Feb 04, 2010, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Find a basic build, if available, in the Campfire section in your profession's subforum. Try adding new skills and see how it works. Once you have reached level 20 and have added a lot of skills, check out builds in other threads or pvxwiki.

Take what works and try tweaking it for the area you are in. Remember that your build is supposed to synergize with other team members - real people, heroes or henchmen. For example, if you are a ritualist, don't bring the same spirits as another team member as they just replace each other.

Rugar · Feb 04, 2010, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Try out ones from here. Get a feel for what works and tweak to your preference.

HawkofStorms · Feb 05, 2010, 12:30 AM // 00:30

It's kinda trial and error at first. If you want to actually get good at making builds, the best way is to come up with stuff yourself (rather then just take a good build from somewhere else). You will gradually start to realize what works and what doesn't intuitively.

Although, if you have absolutely no ideas, looking at a few good builds can give you some ideas on how to make more good ones.

MisterB · Feb 05, 2010, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Choose a concept for the build. What do you want to do? What is the purpose of the build?
Analyze the challenges the build will face. Look up skills and foes for the area if PvE, or observe patterns in the meta for PvP(I have little experience here).
Select skills and equipment if necessary to overcome those challenges. Choose whether to specialize in your task or try to cover your weaknesses for a balanced approach.
Test your build in the environment it was created for.
Refine it. If testing reveals flaws, attempt to correct them by skill substitution or attribute and/or equipment changes. Practicing build execution may also be necessary in order to perform its intended function.

That's a simplified explanation of my method.

Stealth Bomberman · Feb 05, 2010, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Key thing is to come up with your own stuff. build off from there and incorporate what works for you.

I Jonas I · Feb 05, 2010, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

Key thing is to come up with your own stuff. build off from there and incorporate what works for you.

No and No. Pick a build that someone else made and play it alot. Understand what makes it good and then try other builds that people made and figure out what makes them good. Then, and only then, should you be making your own builds.

Silmar Alech · Feb 05, 2010, 01:44 AM // 01:44

When I was a GW newbie, I didn't look into forums for builds and didn't knew that pvxwiki exist. I saved almost every build that was pinged ingame and looked each skill up how it worked. The challenge: many of these builds were terrible or customized for the mission/quest we were facing. It needs experience to tell how "good" a build is. But some build concepts were appealing, and I chose to take such a build as a base and made my own adjustments to it. After a few generations of development they grew to something very usable.

Making a new build from scratch as a newbie is probably not a good idea, since you lack the experience to judge how efficient something is compared to some other thing. Many skills with uninteresting descriptions show their greatness only when you actually try them out.

And it is difficult to make or evaluate builds for classes you never played, for example when you are looking for builds for your heros. The more characters you start and the more professions you try out, the better your build creator ability gets.

RorripopRane · Feb 05, 2010, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Gonna agree with Jonas here. Making your own builds as a new player? That's like the key way to piss off experienced players running alts in pick up groups. It will also mean failing your missions and quests more often and having to do the same thing over and over until you succeed. Not fun.

Read PvXwiki, see what's good and try to understand why it's good, and make alterations based on your situation.

HawkofStorms · Feb 05, 2010, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by RorripopRane

Gonna agree with Jonas here. Making your own builds as a new player? That's like the key way to piss off experienced players running alts in pick up groups. It will also mean failing your missions and quests more often and having to do the same thing over and over until you succeed. Not fun.

Read PvXwiki, see what's good and try to understand why it's good, and make alterations based on your situation.

Of course... when I... and other older players, started playing Guild Wars... there were no good builds to work off of.

All builds were invented by somebody else. They did not just appear... divinely inspired. The best way is still to learn what works on your own. Sure, you will fail a lot at the start. But figuring out for your own WHY not to use pheonix on your warrior is far more rewarding. If you want instantaneous rewards, sure, copy and paste a good build.

If you don't mind putting the work into it, do it yourself.

RorripopRane · Feb 05, 2010, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Listen, the pragmatism of learning from others in a 5+ year old game trumps the "do-it-yourself" romanticism you are pushing. I'm all for creating your own builds in a new game, because you are surrounded by people who are figuring it out along with you, but this just isn't a new game.

Someone who starts out in Prophecies, for example, isn't going to be surrounded by other new players. I started a Proph character back in December, went through the whole campaign without ever grouping with an actual newbie. Doesn't mean I was avoiding them, they just weren't there -- in every mission outpost the majority of players were either getting runs through NM or finding PUGs for HM.

There are slightly more new players in Factions and a good bit of them hanging around Istan, but otherwise the gaming experience for a new player isn't what it was a few years ago.

I have to agree with you though, in new games the DYI way of doing it is extremely fun... it's kind of the only way. It's just that new players today are lonely, fail a lot, and fail a lot alone. Best to get them through the campaign quickly so they're more appealing to long-lasting guilds where they'll really start to have fun.

Trader of Secrets · Feb 05, 2010, 05:17 AM // 05:17

I suggest following a pvx build, especially looking at those hero team builds for general pve if you do have the heroes. Then once you get how the thing goes edit to your pleasing. When making your own build, mostly think of synergy and the role that is played. Ive seen my share of F'd up builds in PUG groups, like the famous warrior with firestorm.

MagmaRed · Feb 05, 2010, 07:15 AM // 07:15

1) Have a purpose. For instance, a Monk can run Heal, Protect, or Smite. There are also 'hybrids' that use Heal and Protect. However, it would be bad to try and do all of it, so pick a purpose so you know what skills would help with the build.

2) Limit your attributes. 2-3 Attributes total allows for easier point distribution. 3-4 Attributes is possible, but more difficult to get the right point allocation. 5-6 is even possible, but extremely difficult. Stick to 2 or 3 attributes, max 1 and then decide based on the skills you use what should go into the others.

3) Use your primary attribute. There are builds that do not use the primary attribute at all, but until you get familiar with build making, make use of it. Not often is it the 'main' attribute for a build, but it is at times. For instance, Expertise allows Rangers to use their skills more often since it lowers the energy cost. But Marksmanship is where most of the attack skills are located, so Marksmanship is usually the 'main' attribute. However, some builds make use of skills like Glass Arrows and Point Blank Shot/Zojun's Shot which are Expertise skills. That would mean Expertise would end up as the 'main' attribute.

4) Don't forget about the secondary, but make it support the primary. Few builds make use of more secondary skills than primary. Usually you only need/want 1-2 skills from your secondary to do things the primary can't (manage energy, remove conditions/hexes, etc.). Since most of the skills used from a seconary class are support skills, they usually don't need many, if any, attribute points. This allows easier allocation for the primary class attributes.

5) TEST IT! Don't jump into a mission and be mad because a build was horrible. Use it first to see if it does what you need/want it to do. If playing with other people, don't use an untested build or they will think you are a noob and leave or kick you.

6) Always be willing to change it. Skill changes happen, and sometimes you just overlook a better option. Always be willing to adjust things, even if it is working well. You never know when it may work BETTER.

pinkeyflower · Feb 05, 2010, 08:58 AM // 08:58

I'm doing this from a PvP point of view but it also applies to PvE as well.

Ask yourself what you want your build to do? Under what conditions will the build succeed or fail at? If the conditions are too conditional (e.g. it requires your target to remain stationary for 10 seconds) then your build will not be good. How can the conditions under which your build fails at be overcome (e.g. an assassin attack chain that requires 5 skills, using something like assassin's remedy will allow you to bypass blind)? How often can you achieve your goal (it's no good using a build that scores a kill but has a 30 second downtime)? Does your skill have much utility (depending on your profession this is an extremely important question)?

And can you use 7 or 8 skills to answer all of these questions satifactorily?

There are more questions but I can't think of any at the moment. Note: think about skill synergy. This can help you consolidate and compress your bar allowing you more room for utility or overcome other issues.

pinkeyflower · Feb 05, 2010, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Also, be aware of a professions primary role. Never go down the path of the wammo or an elementalist wielding a hammer because of a higher energy pool. Also realise that +attribute runes only work with your primary profession.

Brian Valentine · Feb 05, 2010, 12:30 PM // 12:30

thanks for help

Feb 04, 2010, 11:13 PM // 23:13	#1
Brian Valentine Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2010 Guild: Dead Profession: N/Mo	I´ve a question Hi people I´m newbie in this forum and newbie at the Guild wars too I´ve a question: "how to make good builds?"

Feb 04, 2010, 11:18 PM // 23:18	#2
Darcy Never Too Old Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rhode Island where there are no GW contests Guild: Order of First Profession: W/R	Find a basic build, if available, in the Campfire section in your profession's subforum. Try adding new skills and see how it works. Once you have reached level 20 and have added a lot of skills, check out builds in other threads or pvxwiki. Take what works and try tweaking it for the area you are in. Remember that your build is supposed to synergize with other team members - real people, heroes or henchmen. For example, if you are a ritualist, don't bring the same spirits as another team member as they just replace each other. __________________ That's me, the old stick-in-the-mud non-fun moderator. (and non-understanding, also)

Feb 05, 2010, 12:50 AM // 00:50	#5
MisterB Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy Guild: [ban] Profession: W/	Choose a concept for the build. What do you want to do? What is the purpose of the build? Analyze the challenges the build will face. Look up skills and foes for the area if PvE, or observe patterns in the meta for PvP(I have little experience here). Select skills and equipment if necessary to overcome those challenges. Choose whether to specialize in your task or try to cover your weaknesses for a balanced approach. Test your build in the environment it was created for. Refine it. If testing reveals flaws, attempt to correct them by skill substitution or attribute and/or equipment changes. Practicing build execution may also be necessary in order to perform its intended function. That's a simplified explanation of my method.

Feb 05, 2010, 04:20 AM // 04:20	#11
RorripopRane Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Dec 2009 Profession: N/Mo	Listen, the pragmatism of learning from others in a 5+ year old game trumps the "do-it-yourself" romanticism you are pushing. I'm all for creating your own builds in a new game, because you are surrounded by people who are figuring it out along with you, but this just isn't a new game. Someone who starts out in Prophecies, for example, isn't going to be surrounded by other new players. I started a Proph character back in December, went through the whole campaign without ever grouping with an actual newbie. Doesn't mean I was avoiding them, they just weren't there -- in every mission outpost the majority of players were either getting runs through NM or finding PUGs for HM. There are slightly more new players in Factions and a good bit of them hanging around Istan, but otherwise the gaming experience for a new player isn't what it was a few years ago. I have to agree with you though, in new games the DYI way of doing it is extremely fun... it's kind of the only way. It's just that new players today are lonely, fail a lot, and fail a lot alone. Best to get them through the campaign quickly so they're more appealing to long-lasting guilds where they'll really start to have fun. Last edited by RorripopRane; Feb 05, 2010 at 04:28 AM // 04:28..

Feb 04, 2010, 11:50 PM // 23:50	#3
Rugar Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2009	Try out ones from here. Get a feel for what works and tweak to your preference.

Feb 05, 2010, 12:30 AM // 00:30	#4
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	It's kinda trial and error at first. If you want to actually get good at making builds, the best way is to come up with stuff yourself (rather then just take a good build from somewhere else). You will gradually start to realize what works and what doesn't intuitively. Although, if you have absolutely no ideas, looking at a few good builds can give you some ideas on how to make more good ones.

Feb 05, 2010, 01:01 AM // 01:01	#6
Stealth Bomberman Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Oct 2008	Key thing is to come up with your own stuff. build off from there and incorporate what works for you.

Feb 05, 2010, 01:44 AM // 01:44	#8
Silmar Alech Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Europe Guild: Tom Son [TS] Profession: E/	When I was a GW newbie, I didn't look into forums for builds and didn't knew that pvxwiki exist. I saved almost every build that was pinged ingame and looked each skill up how it worked. The challenge: many of these builds were terrible or customized for the mission/quest we were facing. It needs experience to tell how "good" a build is. But some build concepts were appealing, and I chose to take such a build as a base and made my own adjustments to it. After a few generations of development they grew to something very usable. Making a new build from scratch as a newbie is probably not a good idea, since you lack the experience to judge how efficient something is compared to some other thing. Many skills with uninteresting descriptions show their greatness only when you actually try them out. And it is difficult to make or evaluate builds for classes you never played, for example when you are looking for builds for your heros. The more characters you start and the more professions you try out, the better your build creator ability gets.

Feb 05, 2010, 02:03 AM // 02:03	#9
RorripopRane Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Dec 2009 Profession: N/Mo	Gonna agree with Jonas here. Making your own builds as a new player? That's like the key way to piss off experienced players running alts in pick up groups. It will also mean failing your missions and quests more often and having to do the same thing over and over until you succeed. Not fun. Read PvXwiki, see what's good and try to understand why it's good, and make alterations based on your situation.

Feb 05, 2010, 05:17 AM // 05:17	#12
Trader of Secrets Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2006	I suggest following a pvx build, especially looking at those hero team builds for general pve if you do have the heroes. Then once you get how the thing goes edit to your pleasing. When making your own build, mostly think of synergy and the role that is played. Ive seen my share of F'd up builds in PUG groups, like the famous warrior with firestorm.

Feb 05, 2010, 07:15 AM // 07:15	#13
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	1) Have a purpose. For instance, a Monk can run Heal, Protect, or Smite. There are also 'hybrids' that use Heal and Protect. However, it would be bad to try and do all of it, so pick a purpose so you know what skills would help with the build. 2) Limit your attributes. 2-3 Attributes total allows for easier point distribution. 3-4 Attributes is possible, but more difficult to get the right point allocation. 5-6 is even possible, but extremely difficult. Stick to 2 or 3 attributes, max 1 and then decide based on the skills you use what should go into the others. 3) Use your primary attribute. There are builds that do not use the primary attribute at all, but until you get familiar with build making, make use of it. Not often is it the 'main' attribute for a build, but it is at times. For instance, Expertise allows Rangers to use their skills more often since it lowers the energy cost. But Marksmanship is where most of the attack skills are located, so Marksmanship is usually the 'main' attribute. However, some builds make use of skills like Glass Arrows and Point Blank Shot/Zojun's Shot which are Expertise skills. That would mean Expertise would end up as the 'main' attribute. 4) Don't forget about the secondary, but make it support the primary. Few builds make use of more secondary skills than primary. Usually you only need/want 1-2 skills from your secondary to do things the primary can't (manage energy, remove conditions/hexes, etc.). Since most of the skills used from a seconary class are support skills, they usually don't need many, if any, attribute points. This allows easier allocation for the primary class attributes. 5) TEST IT! Don't jump into a mission and be mad because a build was horrible. Use it first to see if it does what you need/want it to do. If playing with other people, don't use an untested build or they will think you are a noob and leave or kick you. 6) Always be willing to change it. Skill changes happen, and sometimes you just overlook a better option. Always be willing to adjust things, even if it is working well. You never know when it may work BETTER.

Feb 05, 2010, 08:58 AM // 08:58	#14
pinkeyflower Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2010	I'm doing this from a PvP point of view but it also applies to PvE as well. Ask yourself what you want your build to do? Under what conditions will the build succeed or fail at? If the conditions are too conditional (e.g. it requires your target to remain stationary for 10 seconds) then your build will not be good. How can the conditions under which your build fails at be overcome (e.g. an assassin attack chain that requires 5 skills, using something like assassin's remedy will allow you to bypass blind)? How often can you achieve your goal (it's no good using a build that scores a kill but has a 30 second downtime)? Does your skill have much utility (depending on your profession this is an extremely important question)? And can you use 7 or 8 skills to answer all of these questions satifactorily? There are more questions but I can't think of any at the moment. Note: think about skill synergy. This can help you consolidate and compress your bar allowing you more room for utility or overcome other issues.

Feb 05, 2010, 09:02 AM // 09:02	#15
pinkeyflower Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2010	Also, be aware of a professions primary role. Never go down the path of the wammo or an elementalist wielding a hammer because of a higher energy pool. Also realise that +attribute runes only work with your primary profession.

Feb 05, 2010, 12:30 PM // 12:30	#16
Brian Valentine Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2010 Guild: Dead Profession: N/Mo	thanks for help